Understanding Your Middle Schooler – I

Guest (Female): This program is sponsored by Focus on the Family, helping families thrive in Christ for more than 40 years.
John Fuller: This is John Fuller, and please remember to let us know how you're listening to these programs: on a podcast, app, or website.
Sue Acuna: That's what parents will do. "Oh, you shouldn't feel that way. You should feel good about yourself. You shouldn't be upset." You immediately told me you don't understand.
John Fuller: That's Sue Acuna talking about middle schoolers and their need to feel understood. She's with us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, along with her friend and co-author, Cynthia Tobias. They'll give you an inside look at the perspective of your middle school children. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller.
Jim Daly: If you've ever wondered whether you're doing this whole middle school parenting correctly, you probably throw that out the window. Middle school is a challenge for the student, the child, and the parent. It's just an odd time where everything's changing. Bodies are changing, perspectives, independence is growing in that little one. They're not following you around the house saying, "Mommy, what is this? Daddy, what is that?" The joyful time of parenting when the kids are just right there and everything is bliss, junior high tends to bring on some stress. And you know what? Here at Focus on the Family, we want to be here for you. We have caring Christian counselors to help you with those parenting questions: "Is my child in a bad spot, a good spot, whatever?" Take advantage of that. It's all free. We also have a great new Age and Stage program where you can sign up your child's birthdays, and we will send you weekly information to help you better understand what your child from zero to 18 is going through. Really, that was born out of my experience as a parent and the pediatrician giving me a list of what the terrible twos were going to look like. Focus now has that kind of capacity to give you insight into the twos, the fours, the nines, all the way through up to 18. So, take advantage of that. Today's guests are experts on the impact of the transition into the middle school years, and they're going to help equip you. If you're living that dream, they'll help equip you to do that job as best as you can.
John Fuller: Cynthia Tobias and Sue Acuna are moms of now adult children, and they're both former teachers. We're talking about a book they've written called *Middle School: The Inside Story—What Kids Tell Us, But Don’t Tell You*. It's a terrific resource, and we have it here at the ministry.
Jim Daly: Sue and Cynthia, welcome to Focus on the Family. Welcome back. Sue, you were that middle school teacher. Most people, most adults, I think, when they hear that you chose to be a middle school teacher, we're like, "What's wrong with you?"
Sue Acuna: I get blessed so many times by strangers when I say, "Oh, I taught eighth grade." And they respond with, "Bless you," or, "I couldn't do it. I couldn't do your job." That's a window into the whole attitude from the adults. What is going on there with middle school kids and their parents that you're going, "Buckle up"? Middle school kids come across as totally self-centered and moody and just difficult to deal with. We talk about the bubble. The bubble is when they really are a little self-centered because so much is changing that they're focused totally on what they're thinking and feeling and how they look. But they really are considerate young people; they just need a little reminding. When you walk up to a group and they don't get out of your way, if you say, "Excuse me, can I get through?" they'll look surprised and say, "Oh, sorry," most of the time.
Jim Daly: Cynthia, that's a great point because I think our anticipation as both parents and adults is that the kids are unruly, they're not respectful at that age. But sometimes it's as simple as treating others the way you want to be treated, right?
Cynthia Tobias: And you know the interesting thing is I was always thinking, "Oh boy, middle schoolers. I love high school, but middle schoolers, no." But we ended up working with not only Sue's class, but about 300 middle schoolers, including a whole group here at Focus from some of the schools around. I just fell in love with them. I thought, "Oh my goodness, when you really stop and ask them questions or you talk to them and they realize, 'So I'm not weird, right?'"
Sue Acuna: At the end when we put the book together, her class, she said, "Hey guys, it's time for the book to come out, and you'll be able to show your mom and dad and friends what you said." And they said, "Don't tell my mom that I said that." You did list me as a mysterious anonymous name because it's full of stories right quotes from the kids.
Jim Daly: Well, and you say these are things that the kids told you but won't tell the parents. I mean, that's the subtitle of your book, basically. And that sounds a little dark, but it's really just things that they're feeling. I do want to make sure to cover this, Cynthia: the changes that are occurring. We hit on some of those changes—physical changes—but attitude change is really the thing that we're drilling into. What does that specifically look like with junior high? And then as parents, what do we need to do to help them a little bit? You touched on that, like feeling insecure is common. Just broadly, what do parents need to expect from the attitude of their junior high kid?
Cynthia Tobias: One of the parents at one of our meetings said, "I just don't understand my daughter. She's so self-centered. She's always looking in the mirror. She doesn't even know who she is, and she's just all about her." And we said, "Well, she doesn't understand the person in the mirror either. She's going through all these changes so rapidly, and the parent's thinking, 'For heaven's sake, just do this.'" But the more you talk to your middle schooler, sometimes the more you realize they don't understand this either. Remember, they overnight in 24 hours, their hands and feet can grow an inch. When they wake up, they could fall out of bed. They could stumble; they could be clumsy. And how do they react to it? They're embarrassed; they're horrified. So, it was really reassuring to the parents and to the kids to say, "This is normal. Really, this is normal."
Sue Acuna: Really, this is normal. Really.
Jim Daly: And that's a good thing, what is kind of the normal range of things. Sue, what are the three things middle schoolers want from their relationship with their parents?
Sue Acuna: To be listened to, to be taken seriously, and to be understood, which is the same thing adults want. When we would talk to parents, we would see a married couple look at each other going, "Same. Yeah, same." It's so true.
Jim Daly: And why do we as parents lose perspective on that or never gain perspective to know these are the basic human requirements to be listened to, to be understood, to be taken seriously? A lot of parents at that age of their parenting with junior highers aren't showing their children are serious enough to take seriously.
Sue Acuna: And it starts when they're little, and you made all their decisions for them: what they were going to eat, when they were going to go to bed, what they were going to wear. Somewhere along the way, you have to start letting that go. When they get to be earlier than you think—we had a parent of a 10-year-old who said, "I figure I've got three good years left," and we laughed because it can start as early as nine or 10 or 11. Suddenly they want more autonomy, they want more independence. If you've eased into that, you'll have a better time. But if at 11 years old you're still making their lunch and cleaning their room, then it's going to be a much tougher transition.
Jim Daly: A real basic tenet for parenting in that regard is the goal is to raise an adult, not to raise an adult who acts like a child. But that's really a huge difference. And it should start just at the fifth or sixth-grade time period, certainly into seventh and eighth grade, that they can have more responsibility, that they're responsible for those responsibilities, right?
Sue Acuna: In the Bible, children became adults at 13 years old. I think 13-year-olds today still feel that sense of, "I'm much more closer to adulthood than childhood." Which is a good feeling. It builds confidence. It does so much for them to know that they're trusted and respected hopefully.
Jim Daly: Cynthia, middle schoolers tend to start to prioritize friendships. You mentioned that. They're not only looking at the mirror at themselves, but I think they're asking themselves the question, "Am I acceptable to my peer group? Am I pretty enough for my peer group? Am I strong enough, masculine enough? Do I have muscles yet?" All those things are occurring when they look into the mirror, but one of their core things at that age is their friendship group and acceptance into that group. Share some tips for the parents to keep up with their kids' friends. That could be intimidating for parents.
Cynthia Tobias: Because the self-esteem is a real issue. And I was teaching a ninth-grade class years ago and this one girl was just so miserable all the time. She said, "I'm just—I'm not pretty, I'm not acceptable." So I asked her to stay after class one day. I came and I said, "I'm going to show you something I never show anybody. This is my seventh-grade picture." And she looked at it and she went, "Oh, but you're so pretty now." And I said, "And you're going to be even prettier. This is a stage. This is what you mature into, but you've got to believe in yourself. We all go through these awkward stages. God doesn't think we're ugly, and we're going to mature into what he wants us to be."
Jim Daly: If anybody's doubting that, just remember your first license picture at 16 or whatever it was. Go back and look at it. Who shows that anymore, right? It's like, "That's what I looked like at 16?" But it's so true. Many middle schoolers spend a lot of time with online friends and screen time, etc. We talk a lot about that. How can parents set boundaries for their children and screen time?
Sue Acuna: I think what's different today is most kids have smartphones and they have access to internet and data all day. Imagine if you walked out your front door every day and there were people standing there watching you who were rating your looks and your speech and the words you use. That's what's happening to kids. First thing they do is jump on Instagram or Snapchat and see how people think about what they've said or what they wear. And it's so intimidating.
Jim Daly: You know, this is a really good point and I think for parents this is an important place to stop and just think about this for a minute. I'm reminded of banks, how they train bankers to know counterfeit money. It's not by letting them feel counterfeit money. They feel real money all day long, and they get them used to what that paper is like, what the ink looks like. Generally, a bank employee can tell the difference because when a fraudulent bill comes in, it's different. I think in the parenting structure here, we can put a lot of boundaries up—we don't want you to do this, we don't want you to do that—but you almost have to fill the bucket of what is true in their identity. People are going to judge you online, people are going to say horrible things to you. Have that dialogue with your child, but you are made for something much bigger than that. What do they know? You have to anticipate building their emotional stability by having open dialogue with them, right?
Sue Acuna: Yes, and you have to listen to what they're saying and not just say, "Oh ignore them, you are beautiful, I've always thought you're beautiful." That immediately shuts down communication. You listen first, and especially the first time they come to you because when they're young and they're first getting on social media, they will be upset and they might come to you and say, "She said that my dress was ugly." And instead of just disagreeing, you listen and say something back: "Did you think it was ugly?" or, "Why do you think she said that?" and just let them share all those feelings first so you've validated their feelings. Maybe even, "Why is it important what she thinks?" Those kinds of questions, but not in a judgmental way, more like an information way.
Cynthia Tobias: And questions is a key point because we have a tendency because we've been used to telling them what to do, we just issue orders, we issue edicts, we tell them what to do, which doesn't help. Or we tell them what to feel. This is a big thing with middle schoolers. But asking them, "Why do you think that is hard for you? What do you think would make it easier for you?" Those kinds of questions are less threatening and they encourage more conversation. But if you go too far, it's badgering.
John Fuller: And Sue you said your parents told you what to feel?
Sue Acuna: That's what parents will do. "Oh, you shouldn't feel that way. You should feel good about yourself. You shouldn't be upset." You immediately told me you don't understand.
John Fuller: Wow, yeah, and that would be a normal parenting approach. You think you're doing the right thing. But listen. This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and our guests today are Sue Acuna and Cynthia Tobias, talking about their terrific book, *Middle School: The Inside Story*. The subtitle, as Jim noted, really says it all: *What Kids Tell Us, But Don’t Tell You*. The research these two ladies have gathered and built upon is really priceless, and you'll benefit from this book in so many practical ways. Get a copy from us today here at the ministry.
Jim Daly: Let me press on this a little bit because I want to make sure parents are getting this. How can parents show compassion for the anxieties that middle schoolers are experiencing or the pain they're experiencing? And I think there would be some gender effect here because I'm just thinking of dads. We always say, "Yeah, just get up, don't cry, don't touch it." Weird things. Where do we get these things? When your son or daughter falls and skins their knee, the same is true emotionally: "It'll be better," because we've got the benefit of living more years and we know the pimple on our face is not the end of all time. But if we're too dismissive with that, we're doing equal harm to a degree. So, we have to really hear that. But in that space of the anxieties they're feeling—I'm talking about emotional issues more than physical appearance—how do we back up and be very careful to say the right thing in that moment?
Cynthia Tobias: One of the things that really made this book strong, I think, is we talked to the kids themselves and we'd ask them, "What's your biggest fear?" and they'd give us, "Oh, losing a parent," and all the standard stuff. And then we'd say, "Yeah, but what really do you fear?" And we would drill in, and when they felt safe, they would say—and almost unanimously—they said, "The fear of looking stupid, no matter what." And one of the reasons that kids want to read this book, want their parents to read this book—I've heard them at the book table: "Mom, you need to read this book. Get this book." They feel like their parents just haven't gotten anything, they don't know, and the kid can't tell them because they don't know either. And so we call it what they tell us but don't tell you because they felt safe, they felt understood, they felt comfortable. And that's why they're very honest about a lot. All the quotes in there are just fresh and honest.
Sue Acuna: I find it interesting that parents say, "My kid never tells me anything," and the kids say, "My parents never listen to me." Which tells you there's a communication breakdown. And there's a line from the musical *Hamilton* where they say, "Talk less, smile more." Just a smile and a nod. John's over there smiling and nodding as I'm talking, which encourages me to keep talking.
John Fuller: It's so true. Let's move into the signs of bullying that we as parents need to be aware of. This seems to be, especially cyberbullying now, which was something unheard of 20 years ago. We just had to deal literally with the bully at school that was picking on me. What are those signs that a child will exhibit in junior high?
Sue Acuna: I think the most obvious one is a sudden change in tastes. They no longer want to watch those movies or wear those clothes. Of course, looking depressed is a sure sign, but when something that gave them joy suddenly they don't want to do it anymore, odds are pretty good someone has criticized them for that.
Cynthia Tobias: Well again it's how you approach them too to say, "That's not okay. You better not do that. I know what you're doing." And it's again back to the questions and saying, "Do you think that might hurt somebody's feelings? Are you being careful of how you're saying it?"
Jim Daly: Or if you're the recipient of it, how do you manage that? That has all kinds of shades to it because bullying comes in all forms. And it's embarrassing to admit. It's hard to get a child to admit you're the victim, and people don't want to be the victim. Describe ways to help middle schoolers develop their identity. We talk a lot about this in the Christian community because there's such an onslaught with a variety of ideologies coming at them at a very young age now. Junior high, public schools, you're already going to get quite a bit of the LGBT belief and indoctrination. So we talk quite frequently about how you build into your child their identity in Christ: that you're made in his image, that he has a plan for your life, that your commitment to him is paramount for eternal life. What does it mean to accept Christ, etc.? Those are all image-building. What do you recommend especially in junior high when they may have questions, they're not sure if their parents' faith is real? They haven't had that encounter with the Lord maybe in a powerful way. So what do you do to build their identity?
Cynthia Tobias: You focus on their strengths and reinforce the strengths. And one of the things that impressed me, Sue talked about was she told her kids God's not afraid of your questions or your anger or your frustration. So don't be thinking that something's wrong with me and I'm going to go to hell or I'm going to be a terrible person. You can ask God. And sometimes you don't want to ask your parents because they're going to think badly of you. But you can ask God. And I really think that it's important that you have a daily time of devotion, even if it's brief, that you keep and never skip the prayers at grace.
Sue Acuna: And ask, "What can I pray about for you today? What's going on, what can I pray about?" as a parent. And parents need to not panic the first time a child says, "I'm not sure I believe in God anymore." Don't panic because then you'll do what they call going off on them: "Where'd you get that idea? Why is that wrong?" It's such a—we just keep coming back to it—but listen openly.
John Fuller: Yeah, that's good and when you look at the research this becomes one of the core things that when those junior highers become 20-somethings and 30-somethings, they'll look back and say, "My parents either did or did not do a good job of helping me form my identity." So this is one not to be sloppy with. And try not to make it all about church. Make it more about faith. Faith in Christ, etc.
Jim Daly: All right, the other—I mean another really sensitive question. Junior high is the time when you start noticing the opposite sex typically. You're looking at girls going, "They're really pretty." Girls are looking at boys going, "He's kind of cute." So as a parent again what are some good guidelines when it comes to these relationships, the junior high dance? Let's just start there.
Sue Acuna: I think it's good to have a discussion when they're a little bit younger what's going to be allowed and at what age. And there are parents who still will make that rule, "You're not going out on an actual date until you're 16." But then there are parents who think it's cute to drop off their two 12-year-olds at the movie and leave them unsupervised. So I think you need to be vigilant, have a sense of humor. That will get you a long, long way.
Jim Daly: And managing those appetites are critical. It's starting right there. That's the age at which those appetites begin to form and you need to as a parent I think help shape what is good and godly character and then what is beyond the pale of the right decision, right? And those are all delicate discussions. And I would say they're really based on your relationship with your child.
Sue Acuna: And maybe you're not the one again, as Cynthia said, maybe you're not the one to talk to them about it. Maybe the youth pastor or a favorite aunt or uncle, maybe there's someone else they're more comfortable talking with.
John Fuller: And know one of my sons at one point when I started to talk, "No, no, no, no, don't." And mine were more willing to talk to me. I had three sons, they wanted to talk to me more than dad because dad would just get flustered. But I had one who'd get in the car and turn off the radio and say, "We need to have some girl talk," and he would ask me about something or something he wanted to talk about. But that's a great sign that he was comfortable enough to bring those things up. But when you talk with boys, you don't want to sit down with a cup of coffee across the table. You want to be on the move: shoot baskets, play a game, play Lego. Be on the move. That's true. Let me ask you: how can parents influence their middle schoolers to embrace their values, their faith? This is like the biggest concern. And now you read so much research from Barna and others that so many teens and 20-somethings are walking away from the faith. And so now we are generating this out of fear that our children aren't going to embrace the faith. So how do we lay the right breadcrumbs, not in a manipulative way, but in a way that we get there together?
Sue Acuna: Make sure that they're hearing your voice just as strong. That's a good measure. The kids said to us, "We don't want to ask our parents any questions. We're afraid to ask about where it is in the Bible or that kind of stuff because they're going to think that we're doubting and that we're going back on our faith." So they needed the assurance.
John Fuller: Along this line, you had a story in the book about a young man you called Jack and his story of faith. Wonder if you could tell us about that.
Cynthia Tobias: Jack, my husband, this is part of his testimony. In seventh and eighth grade, he just decided, "I don't believe in creation, I just believe in evolution," because I—and so he didn't have any real basis for it. He just and he went for years. He finally got converted at 16 by the Youth for Christ that gave him pretty girls and doughnuts. Then he discovered when the youth leader started speaking and goes, "Oh, that's not what I thought it was." Because when you're a kid you're seventh and eighth grade, he said, "I just made these big assumptions and I never asked anybody." So pretty girls and doughnuts is not the only way, but be sure you have a good enough relationship. He said, "My parents—we never talked about it." And think of the years that he could have had back if he could have just talked to his parents or someone.
Jim Daly: Yeah, you know, one of the things that you need to do, I think, as a parent is to encourage your child to ask hard questions, not to run away from those, and maybe even to share some of the hard questions you have not yet resolved yourself as an adult. That seems to allow the child an exhale, that it's okay, I'm not broken because I have these questions or these doubts. But how do you do that, Sue, to where it encourages the child in their faith journey, not discourages them?
Sue Acuna: I used to tell my students that I had a book of questions to ask God when I get to heaven, things that I don't understand. But it's also good to be able to say, "Let's check out the Bible for that." You can go to Google and say, "What's a good scripture about doubting my faith or about cruelty in the world?" God can manage that emotion as well as those intellectual questions that we may not have answers to yet.
Jim Daly: But again, don't shut them down. Encourage it. I mean, I would think even identifying with it—"That's such a good question, I've had that question for years and I don't know that I have a good answer yet." And now you're showing the respect that you talked about earlier and hearing them, so you're listening, so you're doing the things that you said in the very beginning. And even say that frustrates me too. When you're talking about grace, grace is for everybody no matter what, and you can say it doesn't seem fair to me either. If I live a good life and you don't, God forgives both of us equally. That frustrates me.
Cynthia Tobias: Frankly, this is one of the greatest appeals of this book in my mind that we didn't even maybe anticipate. The kids want not only to read it, but they say, "Mom, you need to read this book," because they want them to know, but they don't know how to put it in words, and the book talks to them. This is the way it should be.
Jim Daly: So, man, you've covered a lot. There's a lot we didn't get to. Let's come back next time and continue to chat if we can do that. And for the listeners, I hope you feel encouraged, not only to get through the middle school years but to make the most of them. It's really laying the foundation for your future adult relationship, right? And I want to recommend you get a copy of Cynthia and Sue's book, *Middle School: The Inside Story—What Kids Tell Us, But Don’t Tell You*, published with Focus on the Family, which is nice. It will equip you with strategies to help your child succeed at school, at home, and in relationships, which is the goal of most parents. And when you make a monthly pledge of any amount, man, that is a great way to support the ministry. We are listener-supported. When you do that, it just evens out the budget for the year and we'll send you a copy of the book as our way of saying thank you for your support. And in fact, we just had a listener who wrote this: "I was struggling with negativity about my parenting skills and worrying about doing things wrong. I think that's many parents. But your podcast gave me hope that I can be a good parent." And that's good. They didn't say perfect. A good parent. And I don't know what I would do without your parenting tips. You give me hope each and every day. That is beautiful. That's the goal. Why not be a part of that ministry?
John Fuller: Join us, and if a monthly gift doesn't work for you right now, we understand. We'll also send the book to you for a one-time donation of any amount. Contribute today and get your copy of Cynthia Tobias and Sue Acuna's book, *Middle School: The Inside Story*, when you call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, or you can donate online at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, inviting you back as we continue the conversation and once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
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